| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Agent Kenshin
   |
Posted - 2006.01.13 02:14:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Ifni
Edited by: Ifni on 13/01/2006 01:24:30
Don't get me started on how distorted the T2 market is in the game. Alot of the problems with price fixing and supply would be solved if CCP were to remove the artificial ceiling that a limit of 20 bpos creates.
Allow an infinate number of bpos, like the T1 market, but only available through research agents, and supply will meet demand and price will subsequently fall.
Then it wont matter if there is a cartel, since you would just run your own RnD agent and get a bpo. Eventually.
You think that will change the price of t2? Well it wont the actual BPO owners wont be the ones making the isk anymore. It will fall to the next link in the chain. Down to those who make components. More t2 bpos just raise the price of the components. Raising the price of t2. It changes nothing. There is no easy solution that wont totally crash the entire market at this time. Smaller items not to much but the ship producers that will crash. Not only that since new bpos are in teh game the money has already started to shift to the component manufacturers as they need to make more to keep up with the new bpos. Which intern goes back farther down the line until it finally rests with the POS owners. If i have to i will draw a map that illistrates how far the t2 production really grows.
Anyone remember before t2 was released and before the indvidual construction skills were released what the bonus was on frigate construction. If you had that skill... IT actually gave a reduction in build time for bpos requiring the skill. Right there is a option to get the ball rolling in reducing the ship prices and allowing for more supply without totally screwing the market completely up. BTW anyone wanna poke a dev to read that. :P
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.13 16:10:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 13/01/2006 16:12:12
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 13/01/2006 16:11:05
Its amazing how people keep forgeting things like what Eddz and Troop and myself are talking about. There are enough HAC BPOs. A few days ago i spotted a 10 run Eagle BPC not the greatest but still in the time it took to make 10 runs 20 ships could have been produced. The major alliances have their fair share (More than 50%) of the T2 ship bpos and even the smaller ones have them as well. And i know that about 2/3 of all the elite ships produced in the game bigger than frigates are produced for internal use. If people dont want to sell them on the open market they dont have too.
Edit - Now give back the build time bonus to the construction skills. 
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.13 19:24:00 -
[3]
Hey Marshal i hate to say this but to get anywhere in this game you wont be a casual gamer. You think that the pilots in the MC are casual gamers. If you want to get ahead in EVE you have to work. Thats the beauty of it you get out of it what you put in... Dont put anything in like your time. EVE is more a hobby than anything else i do and i get satisfaction out of playing the game and as a hobby. Its about the people who are around me and not about the ships i fly or modules i use. Thats what EVE is about.
 Khatred is angry. 
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.13 19:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Marshal Dylin
LOL khatred your funny, i played wow, and found the endgame content that consisted of 3 things, molten bore, bwl, and battle grounds to be very boring so i left. LOL I see that the alliances only care bout there preicious i win buttons and keeping the market at a cozy 300% above cost pricing. Im done posting in this thread. not worth the effort, specialy with people like khatred telling paying customers to stop paying ccp and pay another company, im sure ccp would love that if all there newer members did that. We all pay the same $15 amonth, why is it that you should be entitled to more fun then anyone else is retarded.
Heh the prices of the HACs arent set by those alliances its by the little producers who actually selling and making the isk. I doubt with the amount of PvP going around many alliance built HACs leave the alliance. Start pointing your finger else where and not at the alliances.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.13 20:04:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 13/01/2006 20:04:16
Originally by: Khatred
Originally by: Digital Illusion
preach on marshall
and to khatred (hiding in his 17 man alliance  ) why are you so angry? are you scared that threads like these could potentially damage your insane profit margins?
Angry? Hiding? Scared? No, just disgusted at the likes of you who want evertyhing handed on a gold plate. How about playing single player games with cheat codes, huh, much easier?
Thats how i feel.
Getting the BPOs are easy. Its the next phase thats where things get interesting.
Edit and no you cant have any bpos.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.15 01:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Earthan
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Earthan
Really ??
So you tell me the hacs ( ishtar for example) are produced by more then 20 manufacturers?
By definition, if they are produced by more than 1 manufacturer it isn't a monopoly.
Ok but you uknow what i mean , 2 manufacturers can still agree easily on prices and its not really ocmpetition or free market.
Free market isn't what it said on the box when I paid for 2 copies. Mater a fact it says :
Quote:
Player-Driven Economy
Form a cartel of ruthless compatriots and control the spaceways. Buy, sell, and barter to amass great wealth... or do it the easy way with a hostile takeover
Sounds to me like we aren't being let down on marketing in this respect. Deal with it... if you want to complain about t2 prices then do something about it and don't beg the DEVs. If they want to change it let them... as long as they make sure it lives up to THEIR expectations.
I have to agree with this. Its the way CCP invisioned the game. The reason you dont get too many responces to this thread or any at all is because its exactly what they want, the way the invisioned the game. To be honest it works beautifly.
Right now we see these OMG lower the price of t2 and releasing more t2 bpos. In probably the next year we will see the first "OMG CCP why cant the empire lovers get access to build T3 or factional ships that WTFPWN our little HACs... " And the cycle will start all over again. Cause you know its coming sure theres lots of factional warfare coming but i can only wait to see the whiners that say why they cant design and build their own t3 or alliance ships in empire. (BoB mining barges? )
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.15 01:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 15/01/2006 01:55:10
It wouldnt be EVE if everyone could get what they wanted...
Edit - Without putting forth a decent effort.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.15 02:35:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 15/01/2006 02:35:52
Originally by: Khabok
Look at it this way: The "lottery" system is put in place to simulate a technilogical breakthrough by the researchers, right? If you're doing research, you have a chance to "discover" a new BPO, as it were.
So, think about it in real-world comparisons, and you'll understand it a little better:
Let's say Ford discovered a new technology that could make cars hover and fly. You're damned right they're gonna charge you whatever the hell they feel like, simply because they'd be the ONLY ones that could make one.
BUT (and here's where real life and EVE differ) .. they'd only have a monopoly for a little while, because Chevrolet, Porsche, Mercedes.. ALL of those companies would buy one of these new flying hover cars, and take it apart and figure out how it works, and then come out with their own versions.
So, instead of increasing the amount of "technological breakthroughs" in the game, why don't they impliment some kind of reverse-engineering?
For instance, your corp can buy a HAC, reverse-engineer it, and it'll produce a 10-run BPC (or 20 or 50, whatever).
Or, if you spend enough research points reverse-engineering, you can even get a BPO of the item.
Just an idea...
Khab
When reverse engineering was a possiblity It stated there was a 1% chance you would have a breakthrough. So if you took 100 deimos and Reverse engineered them there was a possibly you could never get one. That is a lot of isk down the tubes for absolutely nothing becaues the items were destroyed after the process. Its a one time chance you could have done 1000 of a module and still never gotten a bpo... But this was when the idea was you could only build stuff in your own stations in 0.0 cause the pirated bpo was considered contriband... So there is a possiblity that this will make a reapearence in Kali. Because Kali isnt gonna have much in terms of new ships and other t2 but in the storyline content of the game and how the game operates all together.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.15 17:32:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 15/01/2006 17:34:54
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 15/01/2006 17:33:02
Reverse engineering is a good idea. But it is piracy and well you would only be able to build those ships in 0.0. This is all coming from what has already been designed for it but never implemented. It wouldnt suprise me if by the time reverse engineering made it in and well you wasted 100 or so deimos to try and get a BPO you would have spent about 16 billion on trying to get a bpo. There is also the chance that you could get it on the first or tenth try or anywhere in between your first and 1000 try. It was all based upon the fact there was a 1% chance of actually being able to get a bpo for each time you take one item apart. Oh and all the research was only available in 0.0 to reverse engineer.
As it stands now most HACs arent even produced for sale. All used for internal use of the alliances or somewhere else. Placing the bonus back on the construction skills may actually help out the problem. A 25% bonus to building time of HACs if you have crusier construction 5?!?! People would love that and the supply would slowly rise. With only a minimal effect on the rest of the EVE industry which t2 primarily relies on. I still have no idea why CCP removed that bonus from the construction skills in the first place.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.15 17:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Caine 607
That's very interesting Kenshin, Unfortunately being a relative noob myself I have very little understanding behind the workings of research calculations but I suppose what I personally would like to see above all else is some mechanism that allows for guaranteed T2 BPO procurement, not just 1 per cent chances here and 5 per cent chances there something really definite !
Well if that happened then things would get kinda out of control. The t2 market is a long chain of miners, manufacutres, and sellers. Nerfing or boosting something in the chain effects or can all around destroy the entire chain. There is however an idea but that was done away with shortly after retail when they got rid of unlimited BPCs. If they reimplemented that and made them contriband in empire, and allowed reverse engineering only in 0.0 outposts under a special module in the caldari station and made everything you got from there a unlimited BPC. (No research but you can build all you want.) I think things would be a little different. But it would still have to be a chance based system becuase we cant have everyone with outposts making huge amounts of unlimited BPCs... Well maybe we can but it would give a huge advantage to the 0.0 alliances.
They should still have to invest some capital. Make it garunteed to drop something after 100 deimos have been used (or before still use the 1% chance but after 100 it automatically drops a unlimited BPC.) Or something along those lines. And before you say the BPO owners would have a huge advantage it would take 150 days to build all those deimos and huge amounts of profit gone. Maybe make it 1000 modules per unlimited BPCs.
Say you put 50 deimos in you have a 50% chance of getting a bpc after those 50 runs are done but it could pop on the first or 26th, or 42nd or the 50th or not at all but if you put 100 in you would be garunteed a bpc after the 100th run.
Oh and of course you would need some serious science skills to do this too. :)
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
Agent Kenshin
|
Posted - 2006.01.15 18:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Caine 607
Aaahh, thanks for enlightening me. I think I understand the fundamentals now and I can certainly understand that there is a market balance to be maintained in order to make the game viable however, I'm not sure I understand why the research needs to take place in 0.0 ? :P
Would the empires want you to stick a navy mega into their research slots and get an unlimited BPC for Navy mega? It wont only work on t2 but on faction mods as well and faction ships. Which is one of the primary reasons why it hasnt come out. More testing needs to be done on it.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
|
| |
|